Less than a decade after graduating from Dartmouth, where she majored in sociology and played on the varsity softball and baseball club teams, Bianca Smith joined the Red Sox as a minor league coach—the first Black woman in history to reach that goal. But Smith refuses to see herself as a trailblazer, insisting that she's just doing what her parents, also Dartmouth grads, advised. "Find what you're passionate about, what makes you wake up in the morning," they told her.
Additional Links:
Connect with Bianca Smith on LinkedIn
Dartmouth Alumni Magazine 2021 Feature with Bianca Smith
Read the Transcript:
Jennifer Avellino:
Hi everyone, and welcome to our 50 for 50 podcast. 50 stories for 50 years as we celebrate three major milestones in Dartmouth's history. As many of you know, and some of you can remember firsthand, 1972 was a pivotal year. Women joined the undergraduate community as Dartmouth students, following several years of women exchange students on campus. The Black Alumni of Dartmouth Association, or BADA, is also entering its 50th year, and so is the Native American Program. Quite the trifecta of anniversaries, and also not a coincidence that so much happened during this critical time. I'm Jennifer Avellino, Class of 1989, past president of the Dartmouth Alumni Council and a former senior producer at CNN. As a journalist, my early days were spent as the news director for WDCR, WFRD, Dartmouth Broadcasting. I've had the good fortune to meet and bring to the airwaves remarkable people over the years. And this podcast, in many ways, brings me home.
Over the next few months, I'll be talking to inspiring, influential, and fascinating Dartmouth alumni. They'll reflect on what it was like to be a woman, a native American, a person of color at Dartmouth, and how their time at the college led to the lives they're pursuing today.
Our guest today is Bianca Smith, Dartmouth Class of 2012, who made headlines last year when she was hired as the first Black female coach in professional baseball history. She grew up in Texas, majored in sociology, and played on the varsity softball and club baseball teams at Dartmouth. She received a law degree and a degree in sports management from Case Western Reserve University in 2017, before interning for the Texas Rangers and for Major League Baseball. She joined the Boston Red Sox as a minor league coach in January of 2021. Bianca, welcome.
Bianca Smith:
Ah, thank you for having me.
Jennifer Avellino:
Oh, great to have you here. So you arrived in Hanover in the fall of 2008. Both of your parents attended the college. What had you heard from them about their experiences? How did it match up with your expectations and with what you discovered during your early days at Dartmouth?
Bianca Smith:
It was about exactly what I expected, hearing from my parents. They both absolutely loved the school. I mean, I grew up not only hearing about it, but both my parents interviewed high school students who were interested in getting in. They stayed involved, they donated every year, so it was really important to me. And it was really cool, being able to go to the same school they did. I think my mom came up every term that I was there. Half the time, it wasn't even for me, it was just this be at the college again. So like I said, it was just like I expected. It was some of the best four years of my life. I wish I had a chance to visit more often, but I try to stay involved as much as I can, even from right now, Florida.
Jennifer Avellino:
It's really special when all of us get back to Hanover. I did notice you recently attended a Dartmouth baseball game, so I'm sure that was a special experience for you. So your father is Victor Smith, Class of 1989; he played football at Dartmouth. Your mom was Dawn Patterson, Class of 1990. Sadly, she passed away from cancer at the age of 44. Your mom was a lawyer, and she was an athlete, a volleyball player, a runner, and a co-founder of the Dartmouth dance group, Ujima. Can you talk about how your parents have inspired you?
Bianca Smith:
I think the biggest inspiration I've gotten from them is they've raised me and my siblings to not only believe that we could do whatever we put our mind to, but as long as we're enjoying what we're doing, it doesn't matter the money, it doesn't matter the title. If it's something that we need help financially, our parents are going to be there. They're going to be there to help us out and help us achieve our goals. But that was the most important thing, was "find what you're passionate about." I mean, two things that have stuck with me from both my parents, my dad used to tell me, "Find what woke you up in the morning."
And that meant a lot to me, because I am not a morning person. And I could tell you my schedule right now; I'm at the complex at 6:30 in the morning. So finding something that I was willing to wake up that early for, that's definitely something that drove me. And then my mom used to always say, "You spend the majority of your time or your life working, you might as well enjoy what you do." So just having both of those, that's what inspired me to push and pursue what I truly enjoyed doing and not really care what other people said about it.
Jennifer Avellino:
Well, I know the feeling. Early morning radio and television used to get me out of bed happily for many, many years. We'll talk plenty about baseball of course, but tell me more about other parts of your Dartmouth experience, your major, other clubs and activities you pursued. What was Dartmouth like for you?
Bianca Smith:
Busy. I love being able to go back and look at my Google Calendar and kind of remind myself that I survived all the things that I did at Dartmouth, I can certainly survive now because there's nothing compared to how much I did there. So yes, varsity softball, club baseball. I was a cheerleader all four years. I worked for the radio station. I did videography for our TV station, tried to do play by play for the radio, forgot to say what was actually happening on the field and just started cheering, so I realized that wasn't the right route. I co-founded the sports business club there. And not only was I the president for a while, I was also in charge of marketing and events, so ran all of that. I worked for the Dartmouth dining services. I worked at the bookstore. I'm trying to think what else.
Oh, I did try a stint on the women's ice hockey team. I ended up spraining my wrist actually about a week before my softball tryouts, because I didn't know how to stop yet, and ended up falling trying to catch myself. And kind of did like everything that I could. I mean, I also... Can't believe I forgot, I also worked for the baseball team. Did tours for them, did scoreboard. I mean, I went to every baseball game I could go to. I went to all the football games, all the basketball games, all the hockey games. I mean, I was crazy busy and I don't know how I survived it, but I did. But that's also just what made my Dartmouth experience that much more special, because I feel like there's not many schools you're able to do all of that, and they actually encourage you to continue doing all of that. Most schools are like, "Focus on your major," maybe one or two clubs and then that's it, whereas Dartmouth's like, "No, if you can handle it, go ahead."
Jennifer Avellino:
That's great. Well look, playing ice hockey before you know how to stop, that's pretty brave. Yeah, I love that.
Bianca Smith:
That's why I didn't last very long. I'm really glad I skipped the trial for the softball team because that was... I mean, I love skating. I love rollerblading too. I still don't really know how to stop. And I had that problem playing sports. I grew up playing soccer and I didn't stop, I slid. That's how I stopped myself. That's probably why softball and baseball worked out so well, because you don't really need to stop sometimes. Sometimes, you just need to slide and you're good.
Jennifer Avellino:
Exactly. So you also played softball in high school, and then of course, later at Dartmouth. Did you arrive at the college thinking that sports were going to be a big part of your college experience and perhaps of your future?
Bianca Smith:
Not at all. So like I said, I grew up playing soccer. I didn't start playing softball until the season before high school. And oddly enough, even though baseball was my favorite sport, I just never considered playing softball. And then by the time I got to college, my senior year of high school, I broke my thumb, first game of the season, didn't really get to play in the field, was just a pinch runner. And I convinced myself I wasn't good enough to play in college. So that's part of the reason why I joined the cheer team instead, and that was mainly just to stay in shape. It wasn't a desire really to stay in sports. And I got to Dartmouth thinking I was going to major in biology and go to vet school. I had a whole plan out. Yeah, I had no idea that sports were going to be so much more important to me than just being an athlete once I got to Dartmouth, but I'm glad it worked out the way it did.
Jennifer Avellino:
Well, I think a lot of people are. And you have a lot of stories about injuries shifting your course, but... So it sounds like baseball was really ever present for you as a child. You were a Yankees fan, thanks to your mom. I'm a lifelong Yankees fan, by the way. You were the only woman on the club baseball team at Dartmouth, what was that like?
Bianca Smith:
Not as difficult as some people would expect. I mean, one, the club baseball team was brand new when I joined. And I think they started up about a month or two after I joined the softball team. So at the time, I showed up like, "Hey, I want to play." They knew I was a varsity softball player, so they're like, "Oh, yeah, sure. You're a varsity athlete, of course you could try out. Sure, you could play." Ended up starting all the games that I was in. And I think the really only two, not even major issues, but just two things I had to get past, and one was when we traveled, because we didn't have any home games, just changing on the bus. And honestly, figuring that out, helped a lot for my coaching career, being a D3 coach for six years, I mean, we changed a lot on the bus. So I figured out how to compromise and plan ahead, so we didn't have any issues there.
Jennifer Avellino:
So you mentioned the varsity baseball team at Dartmouth. You were on the cover, of course, of the Dartmouth Alumni Magazine this past fall. They reported that as a freshman, you basically just showed up in the office of the Dartmouth baseball coach and wanted to talk about the game. Tell me what you did for the varsity baseball team.
Bianca Smith:
Yeah, I pretty much did just show up and ask, "Hey, how can I help out?" And most of my dues, like I said, I ran the scoreboard for games, for scrimmages, I gave tours to recruits. So every year, they have junior day where high school juniors come on campus as well with their parents and have a giant tour, so I ran all of those. And then other than that, I think I was just a major fan. My freshman year, I... My freshman and sophomore year actually, I made every single home baseball game. And I'm kind of ashamed to admit it now, but I skipped class on Wednesdays, so I could go to the game.
I sat in the same seat every single time. And since they hadn't made jerseys yet to sell at the bookstore, I made my own Dartmouth jersey from a white t-shirt and just painted on the logo and Dartmouth and everything. And I think I still have it somewhere, there's no way I got rid of that. But that's how big of a fan I was that I knew everybody on the roster, I knew their positions, I knew pretty much everything. And I just came and I just watched baseball.
Jennifer Avellino:
Were there role models for you in baseball at the time? Were there any women in coaching or in the front office more than a decade ago?
Bianca Smith:
Definitely not coaching. In the front office though, I mean, Jean Afterman was one, with the Yankees. Elaine Steward was another with the Red Sox, and then Raquel Ferreira, of course, with the Red Sox, so those three. Oh, and Kim Ng, of course. I mean, I looked up to all four of them when I decided I wanted to work in baseball. And since at the time, my goal was the front office, those were the four I had to look up to. Because those were the four that, at the time, had achieved the highest level that a woman's been at. Not that I can think of, and I'm pretty sure there wasn't anybody on the coaching realms.
Jennifer Avellino:
So after Dartmouth, you completed an MBA and a JD program at Case Western. No easy task in itself for the dual degree. And at the same time, you worked an unpaid position as director of operations for the baseball team, a position that was created for you, by the way. How did you fit it all in? Did you think your future was in the front office of baseball?
Bianca Smith:
At the time, I definitely thought I was going to be in the front office. I told everybody I wanted to be a GM. I wanted to run the team. I wanted to have a say in the roster. I even told people when I became a GM, I was going to implement casual Fridays. I was going to be that GM running around during batting practice, shagging baseballs, which, again, should have been a sign that I didn't really want to be in the front office when my first thought of being in the front office was I'm going to get out of the office. I knew I wanted to be on the field.
But yeah, this kind of goes back to... Everything that I did at Dartmouth kind of prepared me for this. It prepared me for being busy and prioritizing and just getting everything done that I wanted to do. Yes, a dual degree was not easy. It's hard enough just doing the dual degree without anything else on the side. And I did quite a few things on the side, not just director of baseball operations. And I think that took up about easily 40 to 50, maybe 60 hours a week during the season.
Jennifer Avellino:
Yeah. You were working 110% of the time, I'm sure. And then three years ago, you got an internship with the Cincinnati Reds. How did that change your course?
Bianca Smith:
So by the time I got to the Reds, I knew I wanted to be a full-time coach. I hadn't turned down an internship, but I left my internship at the commissioner's office a little early, knowing that I didn't want to be in the office anymore. And they actually offered to let me stay on until I found a job. And I was like, "No, I'm just going to..." I looked, didn't really find anything, went back home, worked as a volunteer coach. So when I got to the Reds, they put me on the player development and scouting side, knowing I wanted to coach, just to give me some more exposure to the minor league system, just how everything worked, because all my experience had been just the major league side. But really what changed things was when I reached out to the coaching staff and asked for advice.
And they didn't get a chance to sit down with me, so I went down to the batting practice on my own and just took notes on everything. Not just the players, but I was taking notes on the coaches, just how they interacted, even just watching them throw batting practice or, just to try to learn as much as I can. And thankfully, their assistant hitting coach at the time, Donnie Ecker, who's actually now with the Rangers, saw me and spoke to their manager, David Bell, and was like, "Hey, we need to get her on the field." And I actually remember, there was one day, I was walking past the dugout on my way back up to the office, and David turns and looks at me and goes, "Hey, we need to get you on the field." And I was like, "That would be awesome if you can." Yeah, I wasn't really expecting him to do much until the next day, he's like, "Yeah, you can come on the field, come on down."
And I remember my first day on the field, I was really nervous. I was in business casual, skirt, flats. I had no idea where I was supposed to stand. I had the grounds crew yell at me because I was standing in the grass. So I was trying to stay out of the way. And Donnie saw me, motioned me over to where they were hitting. He's like, "No, walk around, angles are good. Don't worry, you'll be fine. Walk around, ask questions." I think it was about three or four weeks in where I was kind of joking with David. And I said, "You know, if you ever need anybody to help catch in, just let me know." And he looks at me, he goes, "Well, do you have your glove with you?" I was like, "It's in my car, but I can go get it."
He goes, "Great. Tomorrow, bring your glove, let's see what you got." So started dressing out in t-shirt and shorts, started warming up the players and the coaches, catching in for the infielders. And then yeah, eventually, my second to last day with the Reds, they surprised me with a Jersey. But no, that made a huge difference for me just because of getting to learn, not really the baseball side, because a lot of that I already knew. It was more just coaching specifically, just the way they interacted with players, the questions that they had and just how they develop relationships with players.
Jennifer Avellino:
I mean, you can hear the excitement in your voice when... The shift in your voice when we started talking about this time in your life. I mean, you found it, you found what you wanted to do.
Bianca Smith:
I definitely knew what I wanted to do before I was with the Reds, but getting a chance to actually be on the field, getting to have a little bit more responsibility. Well, I might not have been giving instruction to hitters, I was still doing projects for the coaches that were directly impacting the hitters, and I got to see how they were impacting the hitters, and that was awesome. Getting to know that I had some part in helping them get better.
Jennifer Avellino:
So there's quite a few women now in the front offices of baseball, even more than certainly 10 years ago that we discussed earlier. On the field, on the coaching staffs, it's a very different story, right? There's only a handful. And the Red Sox then hired you in January of 2021 as an on field coach in its minor league system, making you the first Black female coach in professional baseball history. So do you feel like a trailblazer?
Bianca Smith:
Not at all.
Jennifer Avellino:
Tell me why.
Bianca Smith:
Well, I never wanted to be. I had people tell me, and this was even before I wanted to be a coach, even being a GM or wanting to be a GM, I had people say, "You're going to be the first Black female GM." And my response was always, "I hope not, because then we're going to be waiting too long." Because I knew how hard it is to get to that job. I knew how hard... Even becoming a coach, it's really hard. And I felt like there's got to be other women who are just as qualified, if not more qualified, than me, who also deserve this shot.
I also didn't really feel like a trailblazer because while I understand the impact and the importance of the position I'm in, I just wanted to coach. When I accepted the job, I hadn't even thought about the fact that I would be the first Black woman, or the first woman with the Red Sox until one of my friends mentioned, "You realize this is going to be a big deal." I was like, "Yeah, no, no. It's not that big a deal." I mean, it's just a coaching job and it's a minor league coaching job. It's nothing. And once the news broke out, and of course, media just exploded, he actually texted me later and said, "I told you so."
Jennifer Avellino:
Yeah. Well, it's not nothing. I watched your interview on the Today show, so it's not nothing for sure.
Bianca Smith:
I definitely understand the importance, I understand why it's a big deal to so many people. Girls looking up to me and thinking, "Oh, great. I can do this too," because I know how hard it can be when you don't see somebody who looks like you doing the job. But at the same time, my job is to help these players get better. So during the season, I don't feel like a trailblazer, I feel like a coach, and I don't really think of much else.
Jennifer Avellino:
And Dartmouth, which we appreciate very much.
Bianca Smith:
Yes. Dartmouth is one of the exceptions I make during the season.
Jennifer Avellino:
Yeah. Well, there's a pretty good list of Dartmouth alumni in baseball, right? From Sandy Alderson, to Jim Beattie, Mike Remlinger, Kyle Hendricks, and another Dartmouth woman, , Class of '03, Tuck '09, she's the president of Baseball Operations for the Seattle Mariners. Can you talk a little bit about the connections you've had with Dartmouth Alumni in baseball and how that helped you on your path?
Bianca Smith:
So starting out, while I was still at Dartmouth, I did reach out to as many alumni as I could who were in baseball, just asking for advice. So Sandy Alderson actually got me in touch with some people at the Mets and still in touch with them. And from what I heard, he still likes to talk about the fact that I'm Dartmouth family. So I'm kind of in awe about the fact that he even remembered me. Jim Beattie, I do remember talking to when I first wanted to get started and just asking for advice as well. But I'll be honest, I'm a little ashamed.
I actually haven't reached out lately. And it's sad because, I mean, the Dartmouth connections that I have are actually names that a lot of people don't know yet, and that's because they're Dartmouth students who reached out to me, asking for advice, getting into the game. And I'm always happy to do it. Again, that's actually one of the other exceptions I make during the season is I've got no problem talking with students who are interested in getting into baseball, because a lot of it is who you know. It's not just what you know, it's just knowing the way the game works. And it's not just the game on the field, it's the game in the front office. And it's hard to know what you should be doing right, if you don't already have that connection.
Jennifer Avellino:
So how often do you think of yourself as, or the players think of you, as a woman coaching a male team? How do you approach that?
Bianca Smith:
I would actually be very interested to see how often the players think of me as a woman coaching. And I would hope it's not very often. From the way they treat me, I don't think it's very often. I will say the first time I work with a player, they might be a little bit more cautious about what they say. But it doesn't take long for them to realize that unless they're purposely trying to offend me, I don't get offended very easily. If there's something that you say that offends me, I'm going to tell you, but I'm not going to get mad about it, we're just going to talk about it. And that makes players a lot more comfortable too around me because they realize, "Oh, okay, I can just be myself."
Jennifer Avellino:
Well, it sounds like you've made a real connection with your players. What kinds of lessons are you trying to teach them? You've said your job as a coach shouldn't end when you leave the field.
Bianca Smith:
I mean, probably the biggest thing you'll ever hear from baseball coaches is "control what you can control." And this is something that applies to life as well. Just being able to come back from failure. How do you respond to failure? That's the other thing we learn in baseball, is it's a game of failure. One of the things I like to tell our hitters is if you hit three out of 10 times, you're an all-star. But the ones who truly separate themselves aren't the ones who focus on those three out of 10, it's the ones who bounce back from the seven out of 10. Because you can have ones who they hit the three out of 10, and now, they're frustrated about the seven out of 10. But the ones who truly learn from that and learn from their failures and get better, those are the ones that are going to be exceptional. And it's the same thing with life. Just bouncing back from that rejection, bouncing back from a no, how do you get better, how are you going to respond to this and make yourself better?
Jennifer Avellino:
So I know you've connected with a number of other women working in baseball. Can you talk a little bit about that support network?
Bianca Smith:
It's been great. So I think there's only one woman so far who I haven't connected with yet, and that's Jaime with the Blue Jays. But everybody else, I've either met in person or been able to reach out over social media just to kind of... Especially the ones who are just starting up this year, just to give advice or offer them a support network as well. But even last year, when there were only five of us, we did try to keep in touch and just let each other know, if there are any issues, reach out. I mean, I relied on a couple of the coaches last year just to talk to if I needed to vent or if I had any questions about the way things should be done, because I was the new coach last year.
I mean, it's been really cool being able to have that network. And I can't imagine how different it would've been if I hadn't had other women who were either started before me or weren't coaching at the same time as me. If I had been the only one, I think it would've been a slightly different experience. I mean, I definitely think I would've gotten through it just fine, but my approach might've been different because I wouldn't have had somebody to text quickly and ask a question about how things should be done.
Jennifer Avellino:
So let's fast forward, 10 years, let's say, are you still going to be wearing a baseball uniform? Where do you see yourself? Still on the coaching side?
Bianca Smith:
Oh, yeah. I can't imagine myself doing anything else. Man, I tell people, front office is a good backup considering my background, my degrees, the experience I have, but I would have to really not find any other coaching job for me to stop doing this. And especially after last year, it cemented how much I love this job. I mean, this is the best job in the world to me. And not just because I get to wear baseball uniform every day or be at the field, it's the players. I mean, it's the interactions that I get with these guys, it's getting to see them get better. I mean, getting to see them get called up, but getting to see them succeed and helping them achieve their goals. And like I said, even guys that after they leave, after they're gone, still keeping in touch with them. I can't imagine doing anything else. So in 10 years, I better be coaching, otherwise, I'm probably going to be a little depressed.
Jennifer Avellino:
I love hearing that excitement in your voice. How do you think Dartmouth helped prepare you for what you're doing now? You touched on that a little bit earlier, but can you reflect on that for me?
Bianca Smith:
I think one of the biggest things was actually my major. I mean, being a sociology major, it's the study of people. It's just learning how to learn about people, learning about their backgrounds and kind of coming up with conclusions, "Okay, this might be why this person acts this way." And that I think that's one of the ways that it's made it easier for me to build relationship with guys, just kind of having that patience and being able to just get to know them. But it also helped me get to know myself. Pursuing your passion, time management, I mean, organization, and just the work ethic that's necessary to do this job.
You can't come in and just think, "Oh, great. New day, I haven't really thought about what we're going to do today." I mean, I'm in charge of outfield, I have to plan all the practices. I can't just come in two minutes before we're supposed to do drills and go, "Huh, I wonder what we're going to do today?" And then working with the players too, there are going to be days where I'm not going to want them chasing fly balls for 10 minutes because they're going to be doing a lot of conditioning, or it's a hot day and we've got to game later. I think there's a lot that I got from Dartmouth that really helps with what I'm doing now.
Jennifer Avellino:
Sounds like some pretty good life lessons. So let's come back to this 50th anniversary year, both of co-education and of the Black Alumni Association, and talk a little bit about what ties Dartmouth graduates together over the generations, outside of their love of baseball, of course. Where do you see yourself within these five decades of pioneering alumni? I will call you a pioneer.
Bianca Smith:
I mean, I will accept that, even if it's still weird to hear over a year later. Honestly, I feel like I haven't done enough yet to really put myself in the realm of all of the amazing Dartmouth alumni that are out there and that have been there. And like I said, I understand the importance of my position. I understand how big a deal this job is for a lot of people. But considering my goals, this is just the tip of the iceberg for me. I still feel like I haven't done enough.
I've had players who once they get to know me, they'll joke around and say... They'll call me famous. And I'm like, "Oh, I'm not famous yet. I'll be famous when I make a major league team. This is nothing right now. This is me just getting to do what I love. And I don't really see it as any different just yet. So at least where I stand, with all the other Dartmouth alumni, I feel like a baby, honestly. There's just so much more that I can do and I would have to do to match up to so many other people.
Jennifer Avellino:
Well, there's a lot to come from you and we'll be watching for sure. But I think to close, I'd like to focus on how you're inspiring the next generation of Dartmouth women, Dartmouth Black women, and really, all Dartmouth students, regardless of their color or gender or their particular career interests. What do you want for them to know? What do you hope for them?
Bianca Smith:
I still stand by the "if there's something you really want to do, go for it, ignore the critics." Either ignore them or use their criticism as fuel to get better. I mean, that's how I've gotten through a lot of things. We see a lot of the now that you see it, you can be it. And I honestly hate that quote. I hate the fact that you have to wait for somebody else to do it for you to think that you can. I decided I wanted to be a full-time coach before there were women on the field. It really didn't have anything to do with seeing women on the field that inspired me to suddenly go, "Oh, I want to be a coach." I wanted to be a coach because I knew that's what I enjoyed doing.
And I didn't care that there weren't women on the field. Honestly, I never even thought about the fact that there weren't women on the field. All I thought was I want to be a coach. It wasn't until somebody told me, "Oh, you won't be hired because you're a woman." That is the first time it came into my mind that, "Oh, my gender might actually be an issue," but it just never occurred to me. And again, I credit my parents. It's part of how we were raised that your gender, your race, it doesn't matter who you are if this is something you want to do. If you don't see somebody who looks like you doing something you want to do, go ahead and do it anyway and then be the first and be that person for other people.
Jennifer Avellino:
Well, I'm so glad we're not waiting anymore, and really thrilled that it's a Dartmouth woman who's been able to do this. Bianca, this has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us.
Bianca Smith:
Yeah, no problem. Again, thank you for having me on. I was really honored when I got the request.
Jennifer Avellino:
Well, we loved having you on and we'll be watching your career and looking for you as a GM in the years to come and so much more between now and then for you in baseball. So Bianca Smith, Class of 2012, thanks so much for joining us, and thanks to all of you for listening to our 50 for 50 Podcast series supported by our office of Alumni Relations. I'm Jennifer Avellino. My thanks to our co-producers Catherine Darragh and Charlotte Albright and to Dartmouth's Media Production group for technical assistance. We hope you'll join us for our next episode, marking Dartmouth's three milestone anniversaries.